Tuesday, June 23, 2026

Evangelicals and works and apostasy

 

Evangelical: Mormons believe they’re saved by works. Latter-day Saint: We believe we’re saved by grace through Jesus Christ. Evangelical: What about “after all we can do”? Latter-day Saint: The verse says, “It is by grace that we are saved.” Evangelical: Right. After all you can do. Latter-day Saint: Who is doing the saving in the verse? Evangelical: Grace. Latter-day Saint: And who does grace come from? Evangelical: Jesus. Latter-day Saint: So Jesus saves? Evangelical: Yes. Latter-day Saint: Then why do you keep saying we believe works save us? Evangelical: Because it says “after all we can do.” Latter-day Saint: Does it say we are saved by all we can do? Evangelical: No. Latter-day Saint: Does it say we are saved by grace? Evangelical: Yes. Latter-day Saint: Then why are you changing the subject? Evangelical: Because Mormons obey commandments. Latter-day Saint: Did Jesus tell people to obey commandments? Evangelical: Yes. Latter-day Saint: Did Jesus tell people to repent? Evangelical: Yes. Latter-day Saint: Did Jesus tell people to love their neighbors, forgive others, feed the poor, and follow Him? Evangelical: Yes. Latter-day Saint: So obeying Jesus means you’re trying to earn salvation? Evangelical: No. Latter-day Saint: Then why does it only become “works-based salvation” when Mormons do it? awkward silence

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Evangelical: So you’re saying the Great Apostasy means every Christian disappeared for 1,700 years? Latter-day Saint: No. That’s not what we mean. Evangelical: Then you’re saying nobody was saved? Latter-day Saint: Also no. Evangelical: Well then what are you talking about? Latter-day Saint: Let’s start with a question. Did Christ establish a Church with apostles, prophets, ordinances, and authority? Evangelical: Sure. The apostles led the early Church. Latter-day Saint: Did Christ give them authority? Things like the keys of the kingdom, the power to bind on earth and in heaven, ordain leaders, and govern the Church? Evangelical: Yes. Latter-day Saint: What happened when the apostles died? Evangelical: The Church continued. Latter-day Saint: The believers continued. But who inherited the apostolic keys? Evangelical: The Bible. Latter-day Saint: The Bible inherited authority? Evangelical: The Bible preserves the teachings. Latter-day Saint: I agree. But preserving teachings and possessing authority are different things. Evangelical: Authority comes from the Word of God. Latter-day Saint: Then why did Christ ordain apostles at all? Why not just hand everyone a book and say, “Good luck”? Evangelical: Because they were needed for the beginning. Latter-day Saint: Where does the New Testament say their authority would no longer be needed? Evangelical: The gates of hell would not prevail against the Church. Latter-day Saint: Agreed. We don’t believe they did. Evangelical: Then there couldn’t have been an apostasy. Latter-day Saint: Only if you define “apostasy” as “every Christian vanishes.” Evangelical: Isn’t that what it means? Latter-day Saint: No. We believe faithful Christians remained throughout history. We believe many precious truths survived. We believe God continued working with people. Evangelical: Then what was lost? Latter-day Saint: The same thing that was lost repeatedly in the Old Testament: divine authority and the right to administer God’s ordinances. Evangelical: So you’re saying Christians were good people but lacked authority? Latter-day Saint: That’s much closer to what we’re actually saying. Evangelical: But why would a restoration be necessary? Latter-day Saint: For the same reason Christ called apostles in the first place. If authority wasn’t important, there would have been nothing to restore. Evangelical: So when you say “Great Apostasy,” you don’t mean God abandoned humanity? Latter-day Saint: No. We mean humanity lost the apostolic authority Christ originally placed in His Church. That’s a very different claim than what most people think Mormons mean. Most arguments against the Great Apostasy start by arguing against a position Latter-day Saints don’t actually hold.


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